Well, here's another reason to stay with the internal combustion engine.

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cologeek
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Well, here's another reason to stay with the internal combustion engine.

Unread post by cologeek »

Tesla's don't keep you warm when it's cold.
https://electrek.co/2022/01/12/tesla-ow ... ing-badly/

Around this time last year, we published a report: Tesla owners of brand-new Model 3 and Y cars plagued with heating issues in dead of winter.

The problem was with the newly introduced heat pump.

Tesla claimed to have solved the problem with an over-the-air update, but now a year later, it is resurging in a big way.

Currently, Canada and the north of the US are hitting new record cold temperatures with several regions doing down below -30C (-22F).

cut

The forums and social media are full of Tesla owners reporting issues with their heating system, like it was last year.

Again, it appears to only affect owners of newer Tesla Model 3 and Model Y vehicles equipped with a heat pump system

Heat pumps are super-efficient, but they are known to not work as well in extreme cold (around -15C or 5F and below).

cut

Several Tesla owners who brought their car into Tesla service centers following the issue were told that the automaker is aware of the problem and it is working on a software fix.

However, it looks like it might need more than a software fix.

Jimmy Yeung, a Model Y owner from Toronto, had the same issue happen in his Model Y and the service center had to replace the AC compressor and the supermanifold “Octovalve” part of the heat pump system.

He shared the service bill on Facebook that showed that it would have cost over $5,000 CAD ($4,000 USD) if the work wasn’t done under warranty:


$5k to fix a heating system? I can replace my Audi A8's system for less than a quarter of that. And that would be everything. Most of the problems would be single system and cost literally a single digit fraction. Most car companies test their systems under extreme conditions. Maybe Tesla should take a page from their book.
So, now we know what happens when you order your President by mail.
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Re: Well, here's another reason to stay with the internal combustion engine.

Unread post by Boadicea »

I think I will stick with my Honda.
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Re: Well, here's another reason to stay with the internal combustion engine.

Unread post by Baron »

Boadicea wrote: January 13th, 2022, 10:13 am I think I will stick with my Honda.
Boadicea,

Yup, and my 2000 Toyota Celica is still purring right along and keeps me warm even in this cold weather.

Take care,
Baron
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Re: Well, here's another reason to stay with the internal combustion engine.

Unread post by Vercingetorix »

cologeek wrote: January 13th, 2022, 10:02 am Tesla's don't keep you warm when it's cold.
https://electrek.co/2022/01/12/tesla-ow ... ing-badly/

Around this time last year, we published a report: Tesla owners of brand-new Model 3 and Y cars plagued with heating issues in dead of winter.

The problem was with the newly introduced heat pump.

Tesla claimed to have solved the problem with an over-the-air update, but now a year later, it is resurging in a big way.

Currently, Canada and the north of the US are hitting new record cold temperatures with several regions doing down below -30C (-22F).

cut

The forums and social media are full of Tesla owners reporting issues with their heating system, like it was last year.

Again, it appears to only affect owners of newer Tesla Model 3 and Model Y vehicles equipped with a heat pump system

Heat pumps are super-efficient, but they are known to not work as well in extreme cold (around -15C or 5F and below).

cut

Several Tesla owners who brought their car into Tesla service centers following the issue were told that the automaker is aware of the problem and it is working on a software fix.

However, it looks like it might need more than a software fix.

Jimmy Yeung, a Model Y owner from Toronto, had the same issue happen in his Model Y and the service center had to replace the AC compressor and the supermanifold “Octovalve” part of the heat pump system.

He shared the service bill on Facebook that showed that it would have cost over $5,000 CAD ($4,000 USD) if the work wasn’t done under warranty:


$5k to fix a heating system? I can replace my Audi A8's system for less than a quarter of that. And that would be everything. Most of the problems would be single system and cost literally a single digit fraction. Most car companies test their systems under extreme conditions. Maybe Tesla should take a page from their book.
I drive a Lincoln, and if the Ford Company ever goes out of business building cars, they can do just fine with heaters.

My Lincoln is toasty warm.
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Re: Well, here's another reason to stay with the internal combustion engine.

Unread post by Baron »

Vercingetorix wrote: January 13th, 2022, 10:42 am if the Ford Company ever goes out of business building cars, they can do just fine with heaters.
Vercingetorix,

They might have a little competition from GM. The heater in my '87 El Camino works just fine -- and it's never been repaired or replaced.
(Although I live alone, I'm a two-car family -- a 2000 Celica and an '87 El Camino.)

Regards,
Baron
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Re: Well, here's another reason to stay with the internal combustion engine.

Unread post by Baron »

Baron wrote: January 13th, 2022, 11:20 am (Although I live alone, I'm a two-car family -- a 2000 Celica and an '87 El Camino.)
I do that to impress my neighbors with my wealth.

Regards,
Baron
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Re: Well, here's another reason to stay with the internal combustion engine.

Unread post by Charlie Mike »

Boadicea wrote: January 13th, 2022, 10:13 am I think I will stick with my Honda.
If you really want to stay warm: A Ford Pinto

Some people were warm for the rest of their lives.
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Re: Well, here's another reason to stay with the internal combustion engine.

Unread post by oflguy »

cologeek wrote: January 13th, 2022, 10:02 am Tesla's don't keep you warm when it's cold.
https://electrek.co/2022/01/12/tesla-ow ... ing-badly/

Around this time last year, we published a report: Tesla owners of brand-new Model 3 and Y cars plagued with heating issues in dead of winter.

The problem was with the newly introduced heat pump.

Tesla claimed to have solved the problem with an over-the-air update, but now a year later, it is resurging in a big way.

Currently, Canada and the north of the US are hitting new record cold temperatures with several regions doing down below -30C (-22F).

cut

The forums and social media are full of Tesla owners reporting issues with their heating system, like it was last year.

Again, it appears to only affect owners of newer Tesla Model 3 and Model Y vehicles equipped with a heat pump system

Heat pumps are super-efficient, but they are known to not work as well in extreme cold (around -15C or 5F and below).

cut

Several Tesla owners who brought their car into Tesla service centers following the issue were told that the automaker is aware of the problem and it is working on a software fix.

However, it looks like it might need more than a software fix.

Jimmy Yeung, a Model Y owner from Toronto, had the same issue happen in his Model Y and the service center had to replace the AC compressor and the supermanifold “Octovalve” part of the heat pump system.

He shared the service bill on Facebook that showed that it would have cost over $5,000 CAD ($4,000 USD) if the work wasn’t done under warranty:


$5k to fix a heating system? I can replace my Audi A8's system for less than a quarter of that. And that would be everything. Most of the problems would be single system and cost literally a single digit fraction. Most car companies test their systems under extreme conditions. Maybe Tesla should take a page from their book.
Heat pumps have some major drawbacks. Their efficiency (called co-efficient of performance) declines dramatically as the outdoor air temperature decreases. Another problem inherent with heat pumps is the "outdoor coil" operates below 32 degrees, so ice accumulates on it, requiring it to transition to the "cooling mode" in order to melt the ice off the coil. When this happens, supplemental heat is necessary to temper the cold air delivered to the car's interior. In the case of an electric car, that heat must be resistance (electric) heat, which is a significant draw on the car's battery.

Tesla can do all the software "fixes" they want to, but they can't change the laws of physics.

A heat pump on an electric car - that's funny, and pathetic
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Re: Well, here's another reason to stay with the internal combustion engine.

Unread post by Fine Kettle Of Fish »

I don't have anything against electric vehicles per se. They can probably be quite useful in the exactly perfect set of circumstances. But those circumstances do not exist anywhere near where I live, and cold weather is decidedly the main contra-indicator to ownership.
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Re: Well, here's another reason to stay with the internal combustion engine.

Unread post by Gamle-ged »

I have two heat pumps on my SW Florida house and on the truly rare times the night temp drops into the 30s the pumps have to occasionally "reverse" for a few minutes to warm the outside unit. At least they don't suck the warm air out of the house at that time, they just use additional energy, of which I have aplenty.

Maybe two Teslas, one occupied, one being towed for the extra battery capacity! Spare charged battery on a trailer?!...
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Re: Well, here's another reason to stay with the internal combustion engine.

Unread post by oflguy »

Fine Kettle Of Fish wrote: January 15th, 2022, 8:10 am I don't have anything against electric vehicles per se. They can probably be quite useful in the exactly perfect set of circumstances. But those circumstances do not exist anywhere near where I live, and cold weather is decidedly the main contra-indicator to ownership.
It's not just cold weather that works against an electric car. Hot weather requires the use of air conditioning. The added drain on the car's battery to run a cooling system also reduces mileage range.
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Re: Well, here's another reason to stay with the internal combustion engine.

Unread post by oflguy »

Gamle-ged wrote: January 15th, 2022, 1:16 pm I have two heat pumps on my SW Florida house and on the truly rare times the night temp drops into the 30s the pumps have to occasionally "reverse" for a few minutes to warm the outside unit. At least they don't suck the warm air out of the house at that time, they just use additional energy, of which I have aplenty.

Maybe two Teslas, one occupied, one being towed for the extra battery capacity! Spare charged battery on a trailer?!...
You are lucky to be living in Florida where heat pumps can function better than in cold climates. In the heating mode, the outdoor coil can accumulate ice. Since the outdoor coil is where most of the heat comes from (some heat comes from the conversion of electrical energy to thermal energy in the refrigerant) ice prevents the absorption of heat from the outdoor air.

To counteract this, a sensor on the outdoor coil sends the system back into the convention cooling mode, whereas the outdoor coil is rejecting heat, not absorbing it, in order to melt the ice. That heat comes from within the house thru the indoor coil. This means your "heater" is now blowing cold ass air out the grills when you are trying to heat your house!

This is why heat pumps must use electric strip heat in the defrost mode to temper that cold air so you don't freeze in your house. They engage during the defrost mode. Now, electric heat has never been known to blow out hot air, so as you can imagine, the air coming from your grilles during a defrost cycle would never cut it if you had to warm your house with it.

Electric strip heat is the most expensive way to heat a house, but they are simple electric non-mechanical coils. Heat pumps are mechanical and of course all the maintenance issues apply to them year-round.

One side-note. The outdoor air does not need to be in the 30s for a heat pump to accumulate ice. The outdoor coil operates below 32 decrees as the outdoor air temp drops. That is how they can ice up when the weather is in the 40s.
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Re: Well, here's another reason to stay with the internal combustion engine.

Unread post by Fine Kettle Of Fish »

oflguy wrote: January 15th, 2022, 7:39 pm It's not just cold weather that works against an electric car. Hot weather requires the use of air conditioning. The added drain on the car's battery to run a cooling system also reduces mileage range.
Correct! It's just that where I live, the cold is gonna git ya first. :)
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Re: Well, here's another reason to stay with the internal combustion engine.

Unread post by oflguy »

Fine Kettle Of Fish wrote: January 15th, 2022, 8:16 pm Correct! It's just that where I live, the cold is gonna git ya first. :)
It took me one-half driveway of shoveling snow in Indiana to figure out I really love living in New Orleans
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Re: Well, here's another reason to stay with the internal combustion engine.

Unread post by Fine Kettle Of Fish »

oflguy wrote: January 15th, 2022, 8:30 pm It took me one-half driveway of shoveling snow in Indiana to figure out I really love living in New Orleans
What is "shoveling"? 8-) Seriously, I'm too old for that shit. I shovel the steps and a three foot swath in front of the garage door. Then Mr. Troy Bilt takes over.
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