No more military money for the wall

Moderators: Gamle-ged, currentsitguy, Boadicea

User avatar
Nero
Posts: 9529
Joined: October 9th, 2020, 4:34 pm
Location: San Diego, CA
Has thanked: 68 times
Been thanked: 235 times

Re: No more military money for the wall

Unread post by Nero »

Safestuffer wrote: May 3rd, 2021, 12:10 pm yea, because installing a series of radar installations, then manning the border with enough people to stop even the majority of people walking through the border without a wall would be so affordable.
So you think that the Trump administration was wasteful for buying 200 additional border towers?
From July, 2020:
"Customs and Border Protection (CBP) expands border surveillance tower network"
JUL 06, 2020
Customs and Border Protection plans to deploy up to 200 autonomous surveillance towers along the Southern border with Mexico.
Image
realclearpolitics.com: Biden Job Approval: (6/19-7/28)--51.3% Approve/44.6% Disapprove
User avatar
Nero
Posts: 9529
Joined: October 9th, 2020, 4:34 pm
Location: San Diego, CA
Has thanked: 68 times
Been thanked: 235 times

Re: No more military money for the wall

Unread post by Nero »

Vercingetorix wrote: May 3rd, 2021, 8:33 am That happens...takes time and difficult to do with women carrying children. It is an obstacle...not intended to stop all instances.

Then again rethinking the fucked up mess democrats created in 1965....the laws that LBJ saud would NOT affect millions of lives.

If it isnt short-sighted it isnt the Democrat party.
Border fence built during the Democratic administration of Barack Obama:
Image
realclearpolitics.com: Biden Job Approval: (6/19-7/28)--51.3% Approve/44.6% Disapprove
Safestuffer
Posts: 184
Joined: October 24th, 2020, 4:14 pm
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 57 times

Re: No more military money for the wall

Unread post by Safestuffer »

Nero wrote: May 3rd, 2021, 12:35 pm So you think that the Trump administration was wasteful for buying 200 additional border towers?
From July, 2020:
"Customs and Border Protection (CBP) expands border surveillance tower network"
JUL 06, 2020
Customs and Border Protection plans to deploy up to 200 autonomous surveillance towers along the Southern border with Mexico.
Image
i think only a fool would argue that leaving the border open, and relying on radar installations in place of a wall, would be the least bit effective. In your picture, whats that behind the radar? Oh, it looks like a wall.
User avatar
Nero
Posts: 9529
Joined: October 9th, 2020, 4:34 pm
Location: San Diego, CA
Has thanked: 68 times
Been thanked: 235 times

Re: No more military money for the wall

Unread post by Nero »

OBAMA/BIDEN BUILT MORE BORDER WALL THAN TRUMP
"...Congress passed the Secure Fence Act of 2011. And during the Obama/Biden Administration, the U.S. Government built 650 miles of fencing, of the wall, between the U.S. And Mexico."
https://www.kpfk.org/blogs/kpfk-news-de ... han-trump/

"As of Jan. 5, US Customs and Border Protection reports that a total of 452 miles of border wall system have been completed..."
https://www.khou.com/article/news/verif ... 41b980d61b
realclearpolitics.com: Biden Job Approval: (6/19-7/28)--51.3% Approve/44.6% Disapprove
User avatar
Nero
Posts: 9529
Joined: October 9th, 2020, 4:34 pm
Location: San Diego, CA
Has thanked: 68 times
Been thanked: 235 times

Re: No more military money for the wall

Unread post by Nero »

Safestuffer wrote: May 3rd, 2021, 12:48 pm i think only a fool would argue that leaving the border open, and relying on radar installations in place of a wall, would be the least bit effective. In your picture, whats that behind the radar? Oh, it looks like a wall.
There are sections of the border where there is no wall and where there will never be a wall. For example, the Tohono O'odham American Indian Nation is on about seventy five linear miles of the border, sovereign Indian territory that is the size of the state of Connecticut. They have refused to allow a border wall on their land. They reached an agreement with the federal government for the border surveillance towers but no wall.
"Agreement reached to build border surveillance towers on Tohono O'odham land"
https://news.azpm.org/p/news-articles/2 ... ZpemQ5LA6M

There are both integrated fixed towers and mobile towers on the reservation, but no wall.
Image
realclearpolitics.com: Biden Job Approval: (6/19-7/28)--51.3% Approve/44.6% Disapprove
User avatar
JudgeRoyBean
Posts: 4578
Joined: August 29th, 2020, 7:56 pm
Has thanked: 373 times
Been thanked: 989 times

Re: No more military money for the wall

Unread post by JudgeRoyBean »

Nero wrote: May 1st, 2021, 1:20 pm Twenty-seven million dollars a mile to build the wall. A ladder which costs $5 in Mexico to climb over it. Not good use of the taxpayers' money.
Image
now apply that same logic to masks, Captain Fappy.
If it's not 100% effective and fool proof, no need to do it, right?
sicko
Damn near every single argument with the communist left revolves around some attempt of theirs to limit, restrict, or steal the property or freedom of free people.
User avatar
Nero
Posts: 9529
Joined: October 9th, 2020, 4:34 pm
Location: San Diego, CA
Has thanked: 68 times
Been thanked: 235 times

Re: No more military money for the wall

Unread post by Nero »

An Integrated Fixed Tower, no border wall, but a border fence:
Image
realclearpolitics.com: Biden Job Approval: (6/19-7/28)--51.3% Approve/44.6% Disapprove
User avatar
FreeWheelBurning
Posts: 2064
Joined: September 3rd, 2020, 9:55 am
Has thanked: 172 times
Been thanked: 353 times

Re: No more military money for the wall

Unread post by FreeWheelBurning »

alec wrote: May 3rd, 2021, 1:31 am Because stealing tax payer money for a dumb wall is communistic.
You don't like being called an idiot but you continue to say things like this. The money was not stolen and using money to build a wall is not communistic. You are an idiot.
User avatar
Nero
Posts: 9529
Joined: October 9th, 2020, 4:34 pm
Location: San Diego, CA
Has thanked: 68 times
Been thanked: 235 times

Re: No more military money for the wall

Unread post by Nero »

JudgeRoyBean wrote: May 3rd, 2021, 1:46 pm now apply that same logic to masks, Captain Fappy.
If it's not 100% effective and fool proof, no need to do it, right?
sicko
Yes Beanie, that's right: wear your mask so that you don't get sicko! :lol:
realclearpolitics.com: Biden Job Approval: (6/19-7/28)--51.3% Approve/44.6% Disapprove
User avatar
JudgeRoyBean
Posts: 4578
Joined: August 29th, 2020, 7:56 pm
Has thanked: 373 times
Been thanked: 989 times

Re: No more military money for the wall

Unread post by JudgeRoyBean »

Nero wrote: May 3rd, 2021, 1:48 pm Yes Beanie, that's right: wear your mask so that you don't get sicko! :lol:
why do you keep calling me a racial slur?
racist scumbag.
and no, i dont "wear a mask so I don't get sick". I don't wear a mask
Damn near every single argument with the communist left revolves around some attempt of theirs to limit, restrict, or steal the property or freedom of free people.
Safestuffer
Posts: 184
Joined: October 24th, 2020, 4:14 pm
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 57 times

Re: No more military money for the wall

Unread post by Safestuffer »

Nero wrote: May 3rd, 2021, 1:44 pm There are sections of the border where there is no wall and where there will never be a wall. For example, the Tohono O'odham American Indian Nation is on about seventy five linear miles of the border, sovereign Indian territory that is the size of the state of Connecticut. They have refused to allow a border wall on their land. They reached an agreement with the federal government for the border surveillance towers but no wall.
"Agreement reached to build border surveillance towers on Tohono O'odham land"
https://news.azpm.org/p/news-articles/2 ... ZpemQ5LA6M

There are both integrated fixed towers and mobile towers on the reservation, but no wall.
Image
Do you not see the logistical difference between 75 miles of border and the entirety of 1900 miles of border? Does your brain work?

Edit...upon further reading, the reservation is paying a heavy price for their lack of a border wall.

"Eddie Brown, a professor of Arizona State University and a member of the Tohono O'odham tribe, discusses some of the issues that Tohono O'odham tribal members face because they live on the border of Mexico and Arizona.

"You have O'odham living in villages close to the border and many times their houses are robbed, their cars stolen, their homes broken into. So many times you have O'odham that are afraid sometimes to go into town to buy food, to leave their houses alone never knowing what is going to happen. And then of course you have the drug trade and this is where it gets even more complicated: Illegals coming across have dollars that pay people so you have O'odham that do not have jobs and are looking for some way to earn a living; that becomes a very easy way as well."

Brown reiterates the concerns that the U.S. government has with migration across the border:

"The drug trade has been on the O'odham nation for a while; it is the major corridor in which drugs are being passed as well as other nationalities coming across the border and there's some concern about terrorists that potentially could enter through that corridor as well."

https://pulitzercenter.org/education/cl ... ham-nation

Your surveillance towers don't even work on a small 75 mile stretch of the border. And you think they would work to replace the entirety of a border wall? Goddamn you are a fool.

Do you get that? The example you just gave PROVES your idea of surveillance towers is worthless. YOUR EXAMPLE. FFS. Do you do even the least little bit of research or do you just post links that you give a cursory look over?
User avatar
Nero
Posts: 9529
Joined: October 9th, 2020, 4:34 pm
Location: San Diego, CA
Has thanked: 68 times
Been thanked: 235 times

Re: No more military money for the wall

Unread post by Nero »

Safestuffer wrote: May 3rd, 2021, 1:54 pm Do you not see the logistical difference between 75 miles of border and the entirety of 1900 miles of border? Does your brain work?

Edit...upon further reading, the reservation is paying a heavy price for their lack of a border wall.

"Eddie Brown, a professor of Arizona State University and a member of the Tohono O'odham tribe, discusses some of the issues that Tohono O'odham tribal members face because they live on the border of Mexico and Arizona.

"You have O'odham living in villages close to the border and many times their houses are robbed, their cars stolen, their homes broken into. So many times you have O'odham that are afraid sometimes to go into town to buy food, to leave their houses alone never knowing what is going to happen. And then of course you have the drug trade and this is where it gets even more complicated: Illegals coming across have dollars that pay people so you have O'odham that do not have jobs and are looking for some way to earn a living; that becomes a very easy way as well."

Brown reiterates the concerns that the U.S. government has with migration across the border:

"The drug trade has been on the O'odham nation for a while; it is the major corridor in which drugs are being passed as well as other nationalities coming across the border and there's some concern about terrorists that potentially could enter through that corridor as well."

https://pulitzercenter.org/education/cl ... ham-nation

Your surveillance towers don't even work on a small 75 mile stretch of the border. And you think they would work to replace the entirety of a border wall? Goddamn you are a fool.

Do you get that? The example you just gave PROVES your idea of surveillance towers is worthless. YOUR EXAMPLE. FFS. Do you do even the least little bit of research or do you just post links that you give a cursory look over?
It was the Trump administration that ordered the 200 additional border towers. So what you're saying is that Trump wasted money on a worthless project.
Got it.
Here's a little research for you:
"CBP’s Autonomous Surveillance Towers Declared a Program of Record along the Southwest Border
Release Date: July 2, 2020
WASHINGTON – U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) today announced that the Autonomous Surveillance Towers (AST) system has become a Program of Record for U.S. Border Patrol (USBP). Autonomous surveillance towers, known formerly as Innovative Towers, operate off-grid with 100 percent renewable energy and provide autonomous surveillance operations 24 hours per day, 365 days per year.

Perfectly suited for remote and rural locations, the AST scans the environment with radar to detect movement, orients a camera to the location of the movement detected by the radar, and analyzes the imagery using algorithms to autonomously identify items of interest, such as people or vehicles. Border Patrol agents are then alerted to this event and have the opportunity to make the final determination on what the item is and if it poses a threat.Autonomous Surveillance Tower

These innovative towers operate completely off grid using 100 percent renewable energy, have a small geographic footprint, and minimize the impact to land owners and public lands to the maximum extent. CBP personnel are able to re-locate a tower within two hours, providing frontline agents with a highly flexible, autonomous system that enhances situational awareness, agent effectiveness, and safety.

“These towers give agents in the field a significant leg up against the criminal networks that facilitate illegal cross-border activity,” said Border Patrol Chief Rodney Scott. “The more our agents know about what they encounter in the field, the more safely and effectively they can respond.”

AST SensorsCBP first piloted the towers in early 2018 with four towers in the San Diego Border Patrol Sector, and has since procured 56 additional towers. CBP is on a path to procure and deploy 140 additional towers in Fiscal Years 2021 and 2022, to reach a total of 200 towers.

Autonomous technology is a true force multiplier for CBP, enabling Border Patrol agents to remain focused on their interdiction mission rather than operating surveillance systems. Investments in autonomous operation, artificial intelligence, and other advanced technologies native to the Autonomous Surveillance Towers are absolutely essential to border security and compliment other capabilities such as the Border Wall System, Remote Video Surveillance System, Integrated Fixed Towers, Mobile Surveillance and small drones.
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/national-m ... cord-along
realclearpolitics.com: Biden Job Approval: (6/19-7/28)--51.3% Approve/44.6% Disapprove
Safestuffer
Posts: 184
Joined: October 24th, 2020, 4:14 pm
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 57 times

Re: No more military money for the wall

Unread post by Safestuffer »

Nero wrote: May 3rd, 2021, 2:59 pm It was the Trump administration that ordered the 200 additional border towers. So what you're saying is that Trump wasted money on a worthless project.
Got it.
That is a complete straw man argument, you know it is a straw man argument, and you demean yourself anyways by using it.
If you can't build a wall, such as in the reservation discussed along the border, then you have to use whats available even it it is inferior.. In places with a wall, border towers AUGMENTING the wall is a good idea. More security is good.
But.
As I've said, your plan to REPLACE a border wall with surveillance towers is a bad idea. Its provably a bad idea. Your example shows its a bad idea.
Are you really this dumb, dude? Or are you just incredibly dishonest?
Nero wrote: May 3rd, 2021, 2:59 pmHere's a little research for you:
"CBP’s Autonomous Surveillance Towers Declared a Program of Record along the Southwest Border
Release Date: July 2, 2020
WASHINGTON – U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) today announced that the Autonomous Surveillance Towers (AST) system has become a Program of Record for U.S. Border Patrol (USBP). Autonomous surveillance towers, known formerly as Innovative Towers, operate off-grid with 100 percent renewable energy and provide autonomous surveillance operations 24 hours per day, 365 days per year.

Perfectly suited for remote and rural locations, the AST scans the environment with radar to detect movement, orients a camera to the location of the movement detected by the radar, and analyzes the imagery using algorithms to autonomously identify items of interest, such as people or vehicles. Border Patrol agents are then alerted to this event and have the opportunity to make the final determination on what the item is and if it poses a threat.Autonomous Surveillance Tower

These innovative towers operate completely off grid using 100 percent renewable energy, have a small geographic footprint, and minimize the impact to land owners and public lands to the maximum extent. CBP personnel are able to re-locate a tower within two hours, providing frontline agents with a highly flexible, autonomous system that enhances situational awareness, agent effectiveness, and safety.

“These towers give agents in the field a significant leg up against the criminal networks that facilitate illegal cross-border activity,” said Border Patrol Chief Rodney Scott. “The more our agents know about what they encounter in the field, the more safely and effectively they can respond.”

AST SensorsCBP first piloted the towers in early 2018 with four towers in the San Diego Border Patrol Sector, and has since procured 56 additional towers. CBP is on a path to procure and deploy 140 additional towers in Fiscal Years 2021 and 2022, to reach a total of 200 towers.

Autonomous technology is a true force multiplier for CBP, enabling Border Patrol agents to remain focused on their interdiction mission rather than operating surveillance systems. Investments in autonomous operation, artificial intelligence, and other advanced technologies native to the Autonomous Surveillance Towers are absolutely essential to border security and compliment other capabilities such as the Border Wall System, Remote Video Surveillance System, Integrated Fixed Towers, Mobile Surveillance and small drones.
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/national-m ... cord-along
Those are glowing recommendations for surveillance towers augmenting other systems, such as a border wall. Nowhere in your quote do I see anybody suggesting surveillance towers can replace a border wall. Personally, I think they are a great additional layer of security.
However,
The data YOU posted proves they don't work in the role you proposed. The example you gave of a surveillance tower based deterrent, YOUR example, is "The major corridor" for drugs and illegal immigrants passing through.

The data is in, Nero. Your idea of surveillance towers in place of a wall is garbage. Own it.
User avatar
Isidore
Posts: 260
Joined: December 15th, 2020, 4:55 pm
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 48 times

Re: No more military money for the wall

Unread post by Isidore »

Safestuffer wrote: May 3rd, 2021, 1:54 pm https://pulitzercenter.org/education/cl ... ham-nation

Your surveillance towers don't even work on a small 75 mile stretch of the border. And you think they would work to replace the entirety of a border wall? Goddamn you are a fool.

Do you get that? The example you just gave PROVES your idea of surveillance towers is worthless. YOUR EXAMPLE. FFS. Do you do even the least little bit of research or do you just post links that you give a cursory look over?
Based on the date of that article, you're suggesting surveillance towers (whose installation was finally negotiated in May 2019 after five years) have completely failed to stop border activity prior to March 2013.
"On November 4th, you won’t hear about it anymore."
User avatar
Vercingetorix
Posts: 8600
Joined: August 30th, 2020, 7:23 pm
Has thanked: 207 times
Been thanked: 769 times

Re: No more military money for the wall

Unread post by Vercingetorix »

Nero wrote: May 3rd, 2021, 12:42 pm Border fence built during the Democratic administration of Barack Obama:
Image
How does this add to the discussion? Who cares who builds a fence. If Obama had been a good leader he would have rewritten the 1965 immigration act..
Post Reply