Supreme Court says Maine cannot deny tuition aid to religious schools

Moderator: uncledad

Forum rules
This is a heavily moderated forum. Should you see a post that is a one line zinger (not related to topic) or it becomes derailed (offshoots of a related topic are fine) or there is a post simply breaking the TOS, please notify a mod/admin and it will be removed.
uncledad
Posts: 2792
Joined: August 29th, 2020, 9:44 pm
Has thanked: 797 times
Been thanked: 370 times

Supreme Court says Maine cannot deny tuition aid to religious schools

Unread post by uncledad »

The Supreme Court on Tuesday extended a recent streak of victories for religious interests, striking down a Maine tuition program that does not allow public funds to go to schools that promote religious instruction.

The vote was 6 to 3, with Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr. writing for the majority and the court’s three liberals in dissent.

The case involves an unusual program in a small state that affects only a few thousand students. But it could have greater implications as the more conservative court relaxes the constitutional line between church and state.

“There is nothing neutral about Maine’s program,” he wrote. “The State pays tuition for certain students at private schools — so long as the schools are not religious. That is discrimination against religion.”

Justice Sonia Sotomayor, one of the dissenters, answered: “This Court continues to dismantle the wall of separation between church and state that the Framers fought to build.”

Gift / no pay wall https://wapo.st/3tSCbil
User avatar
FOIA
Posts: 7834
Joined: August 29th, 2020, 8:49 pm
Has thanked: 584 times
Been thanked: 1884 times

Re: Supreme Court says Maine cannot deny tuition aid to religious schools

Unread post by FOIA »

uncledad wrote: June 21st, 2022, 11:40 am Justice Sonia Sotomayor, one of the dissenters, answered: “This Court continues to dismantle the wall of separation between church and state that the Framers fought to build.”
Nope. They just didn't want the government to establish a state (governmental) religion.
User avatar
Vercingetorix
Posts: 16121
Joined: August 30th, 2020, 7:23 pm
Has thanked: 552 times
Been thanked: 1481 times

Re: Supreme Court says Maine cannot deny tuition aid to religious schools

Unread post by Vercingetorix »

FOIA wrote: June 21st, 2022, 3:31 pm Nope. They just didn't want the government to establish a state (governmental) religion.
They didnt want government to be the arbiter of religious belief. In England for example the King described religious belief and purged other religions as they saw fit.
User avatar
Gamle-ged
Posts: 2552
Joined: August 29th, 2020, 5:29 pm
Location: Nokomis, Florida
Has thanked: 966 times
Been thanked: 475 times

Re: Supreme Court says Maine cannot deny tuition aid to religious schools

Unread post by Gamle-ged »

The "no establishment of religion" has at times been Draconian in practice in some areas. I recall one report years ago where there was a heated complaint that someone should be arrested for posting a temporary sign in the public easement in front of the church showing where additional parking was available on a given day...
uncledad
Posts: 2792
Joined: August 29th, 2020, 9:44 pm
Has thanked: 797 times
Been thanked: 370 times

Re: Supreme Court says Maine cannot deny tuition aid to religious schools

Unread post by uncledad »

FOIA wrote: June 21st, 2022, 3:31 pm Nope. They just didn't want the government to establish a state (governmental) religion.
There's the tax question.
If private schools pay property taxes, shouldn't religious schools pay property taxes?
User avatar
fools_gold
Posts: 1424
Joined: August 29th, 2020, 4:51 pm
Location: Texas
Has thanked: 127 times
Been thanked: 350 times

Re: Supreme Court says Maine cannot deny tuition aid to religious schools

Unread post by fools_gold »

uncledad wrote: June 22nd, 2022, 1:39 pm There's the tax question.
If private schools pay property taxes, shouldn't religious schools pay property taxes?
Schools (as schools) don't pay property taxes. Property owners pay property taxes. Most governmental jurisdictions have carved out exemptions for property owned by recognized religious entities. So it depends on whose property the school is on.

I'm all for the laws being changed to apply property tax to all religious entities. But I doubt that would happen.
uncledad
Posts: 2792
Joined: August 29th, 2020, 9:44 pm
Has thanked: 797 times
Been thanked: 370 times

Re: Supreme Court says Maine cannot deny tuition aid to religious schools

Unread post by uncledad »

fools_gold wrote: June 22nd, 2022, 2:06 pm Schools (as schools) don't pay property taxes. Property owners pay property taxes. Most governmental jurisdictions have carved out exemptions for property owned by recognized religious entities. So it depends on whose property the school is on.

I'm all for the laws being changed to apply property tax to all religious entities. But I doubt that would happen.
Public schools do not pay property taxes as they are owned by the government. Private schools are a different matter.

Is a day care a business? Private ones are. They pay property taxes. A day care run in a building that preforms religious rites do not pay property taxes.

I agree there should be property taxes paid.
User avatar
Vercingetorix
Posts: 16121
Joined: August 30th, 2020, 7:23 pm
Has thanked: 552 times
Been thanked: 1481 times

Re: Supreme Court says Maine cannot deny tuition aid to religious schools

Unread post by Vercingetorix »

uncledad wrote: June 22nd, 2022, 1:39 pm There's the tax question.
If private schools pay property taxes, shouldn't religious schools pay property taxes?
They do if the land is purchased seperately from a church. Many religious schools are created almost like their own non-profit corporation.
User avatar
Vercingetorix
Posts: 16121
Joined: August 30th, 2020, 7:23 pm
Has thanked: 552 times
Been thanked: 1481 times

Re: Supreme Court says Maine cannot deny tuition aid to religious schools

Unread post by Vercingetorix »

fools_gold wrote: June 22nd, 2022, 2:06 pm Schools (as schools) don't pay property taxes. Property owners pay property taxes. Most governmental jurisdictions have carved out exemptions for property owned by recognized religious entities. So it depends on whose property the school is on.

I'm all for the laws being changed to apply property tax to all religious entities. But I doubt that would happen.
Certainly depends on the state...not sure what the idea of increased taxation matters since people that have no children or do not use public schools still have to pay.

This means they are forced to pay a tax from ehich they derive only abstract benefit.

Forcing other entities to pay taxes woulf simply be passed onto the consumer as a clandestine tax.
User avatar
Slayer
Posts: 4168
Joined: April 21st, 2021, 5:58 pm
Has thanked: 311 times
Been thanked: 185 times

Re: Supreme Court says Maine cannot deny tuition aid to religious schools

Unread post by Slayer »

uncledad wrote: June 21st, 2022, 11:40 am The Supreme Court on Tuesday extended a recent streak of victories for religious interests, striking down a Maine tuition program that does not allow public funds to go to schools that promote religious instruction.

The vote was 6 to 3, with Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr. writing for the majority and the court’s three liberals in dissent.

The case involves an unusual program in a small state that affects only a few thousand students. But it could have greater implications as the more conservative court relaxes the constitutional line between church and state.

“There is nothing neutral about Maine’s program,” he wrote. “The State pays tuition for certain students at private schools — so long as the schools are not religious. That is discrimination against religion.”

Justice Sonia Sotomayor, one of the dissenters, answered: “This Court continues to dismantle the wall of separation between church and state that the Framers fought to build.”

Gift / no pay wall https://wapo.st/3tSCbil
This is a terrible decision. I have to imagine the right loves this opinion? Or no? All I see is public funding of Madrases coming down the road, sigh. Every time the right cheers this sort of thing, I can’t stop thinking about the future ramifications of a short sighted vote.
User avatar
Vercingetorix
Posts: 16121
Joined: August 30th, 2020, 7:23 pm
Has thanked: 552 times
Been thanked: 1481 times

Re: Supreme Court says Maine cannot deny tuition aid to religious schools

Unread post by Vercingetorix »

Slayer wrote: June 23rd, 2022, 8:26 am This is a terrible decision. I have to imagine the right loves this opinion? Or no? All I see is public funding of Madrases coming down the road, sigh. Every time the right cheers this sort of thing, I can’t stop thinking about the future ramifications of a short sighted vote.
More private schools is a good thing....regardless of the entity that runs them. Private schools must acquiesce to the demands of the consumer unlike a public school that has virtually no oversight.
User avatar
Slayer
Posts: 4168
Joined: April 21st, 2021, 5:58 pm
Has thanked: 311 times
Been thanked: 185 times

Re: Supreme Court says Maine cannot deny tuition aid to religious schools

Unread post by Slayer »

Vercingetorix wrote: June 23rd, 2022, 8:29 am More private schools is a good thing....regardless of the entity that runs them. Private schools must acquiesce to the demands of the consumer unlike a public school that has virtually no oversight.
Depends on where the funding comes from. Our present method of funding in Ohio was ruled unconstitutional decades ago. Private schools getting public funding and not having any oversight is unacceptable.
User avatar
Slayer
Posts: 4168
Joined: April 21st, 2021, 5:58 pm
Has thanked: 311 times
Been thanked: 185 times

Re: Supreme Court says Maine cannot deny tuition aid to religious schools

Unread post by Slayer »

Muddling Through wrote: June 23rd, 2022, 8:30 am Slay-Boi hates it when children get an education.
Forum rules
This is a heavily moderated forum. Should you see a post that is a one line zinger (not related to topic) or it becomes derailed (offshoots of a related topic are fine) or there is a post simply breaking the TOS, please notify a mod/admin and it will be removed.
User avatar
Vercingetorix
Posts: 16121
Joined: August 30th, 2020, 7:23 pm
Has thanked: 552 times
Been thanked: 1481 times

Re: Supreme Court says Maine cannot deny tuition aid to religious schools

Unread post by Vercingetorix »

Slayer wrote: June 23rd, 2022, 8:34 am Depends on where the funding comes from. Our present method of funding in Ohio was ruled unconstitutional decades ago. Private schools getting public funding and not having any oversight is unacceptable.
A private school ALWAYS has oversight.
User avatar
Slayer
Posts: 4168
Joined: April 21st, 2021, 5:58 pm
Has thanked: 311 times
Been thanked: 185 times

Re: Supreme Court says Maine cannot deny tuition aid to religious schools

Unread post by Slayer »

Vercingetorix wrote: June 23rd, 2022, 8:37 am A private school ALWAYS has oversight.
But not public oversight which is my point. It’s basically taxation without representation. Or do they elect school board officials from the public? I don’t really know that much about the structure of private religious schools.
Post Reply